Mr. Sinervo, you dedicated an entire chapter to “Germany’s next top model” in your book “Fame vs. Fake”. They call the program a “purely commercial shit show, designed as a money machine for Heidi Klum”. What bothers you about the format? It’s purely an entertainment show. That’s fine in itself, but I think we have to develop a certain sense of responsibility for the young people who come here with the dream and goal of becoming a model. If any D-celebrities go into the jungle and make a fool of themselves, that’s a grown-up decision. Nothing can be said against that. That is not reprehensible. At GNTM, some of the girls are still very young and naive. I find it terrible what is happening to them and what they have to go through. That is morally reprehensible.
So the show doesn’t have much to do with the real world of models? Heidi Klum sends a completely distorted picture of my industry. The format only works with exacerbations and extremes. The young girls are completely isolated during the show – from their family and friends. Many of the scenes are scripted and have nothing to do with the reality of the model. In these situations, the girls get excited, they may not know how to act. If they overreact, they will even be attacked later on social media. All with the aim of escalating the situation as much as possible. I’m really sorry. I can’t even watch it and I think it’s really bad.
There were attempts to compete with Heidi Klum on TV. Be it through Bar Refaeli, Karolina Kurkova or Eva Padberg, who moderated similar model shows. All formats were canceled after just one season. GNTM has been running for 16 years. Why is Klum so successful? There is always a new generation growing up and many girls are extremely naive. They dream of being discovered in such a show. You lack a realistic assessment. They actually believe they have a chance to make a career in modeling through the show. I think that’s what’s dangerous about the whole format. That new young girls keep slipping into this show and making themselves look ridiculous. I think it’s getting worse and worse.
There are also nude shoots in every GNTM season. Last year, a nude walk caused a lot of criticism. What does that look like in the model reality? This is not usual at all. Something like that doesn’t happen in the real model world.
The topic of diversity has been propagated at GNTM for several years. In 2021, a transgender candidate won, this season there are curvy, slim, short, tall, old, young models and also a participant with scars on her skin. What role does diversity play in the real world of models? The fact that Heidi Klum, after 16 seasons of the worst discrimination and bullying, now stands up and says we are committed to diversity, I find outrageous and ridiculous. I don’t believe her. A lot has happened in the fashion industry in terms of nationality and skin color – and that’s a good thing. But you also have to honestly say that diversity doesn’t mean: everything is allowed and everything is in demand. The older lady who is now participating in GNTM will hopefully be sensible enough to realize that she is no longer a model at her age. I find it worse that personal destinies or suffering are exploited for the show. These girls may get pity, but they don’t become models. I find it dishonest to spread such a story just for television and the ratings.
Meanwhile, Heidi Klum is trying to establish her 17-year-old daughter as a model. What do you think of Leni Klum? From a professional point of view, she is not a model, by any means. She has neither a look nor a personality that blows you away. Several people in my industry share this assessment. I don’t know anyone who is really excited about her.
You write that several former GNTM candidates have applied to your agency and that you have gotten some out of the gag contracts with the help of your lawyer. Can you name names? Simone Kowalski, the 2019 winner, was a model at my agency and then went to GNTM. She almost went the opposite way. It was publicly noticed that she felt very bad after participating in the show. In the past few years, at least 15 to 20 former GNTM candidates have introduced themselves to us, be it Fiona Erdmann, Tessa Bergmeier, Lovelyn Enebechi, Jolina Fust, Maria Willhauk or Greta Faeser.
Did you sign the GNTM candidates? I turned down many. In the beginning we were more willing to experiment. But you noticed that after the show, the girls didn’t go down well with customers either, because they didn’t want the flashy image. We left it later. The last one we tried was Joelle Juana Pascai-Quednau. Before she took part in GNTM, she had a management position at a discounter, but it was impossible to do this job again after the show.
Your book says that none of the candidates in 16 seasons of GNTM has had a great career. Names that we know are Lena Gercke or Stefanie Giesinger. They have already made a career, but not as a model, but rather as an influencer and as a presenter. I don’t see a former candidate as a real top model. I also think that for the past few seasons, girls have been chosen who have less and less modeling potential. Many have the notion that after the show they can model and make money because they are celebrities. But most people can’t make a living from it.
Several thousand young women apply to your agency every year, but only five to ten per year are accepted. What does it take to work successfully as a model? The look has to be right and the requirements of the fashion industry have to be met. I didn’t come up with that as the head of the agency, it’s what our customers want. When it comes to size and shape, there are just certain requirements. You should have a symmetrical face, good hair structure, good skin and discipline. Discipline is really extremely important, the job is very strenuous. Due to e-commerce, a model today has to shoot almost three times as many pictures per day as a few years ago. It used to be maybe 13 motifs, now it’s 45. You have to be physically fit and fast to do it. A model must also understand what the photographer wants from me and how do I put myself in the right light.
Do you notice relatively quickly whether someone is suitable as a model? I recently had a model that I accepted into the agency, although I didn’t like her overall habit that much. She came to the interview relatively unkempt, but she had a beautiful face. I figured we’d try that. And then she actually has a huge campaign for Dolce in three days
The ideal starting age for a model is between 15 and 17 years, you write. How long does a successful modeling career last and can you really earn that much to then live off it for the rest of your life? How long you can work as a model is a question of type. Some girls work very successfully until their mid-30s. You can earn a lot of money in that time. Very few become multimillionaires, but many have a good basis for life, can afford a house and have some savings.
What happens to the models who don’t make it big? They are then perhaps in their early 20s and have no school qualifications or training. At the age of 14, the models are put on our watch list. We do the first test shoots to see how it all feels, do the girls enjoy it, do they develop a passion for working in front of the camera. Between the ages of 14 and 16 comes the phase in which models physically change again. There is a growth spurt, the topic of skin is important, especially during puberty. It really starts at the age of 16. There are girls who hit the ground running and could theoretically work every day. We talk to the parents about how often they can be taken out of school or whether they work during the holidays. In others, it develops more slowly over several years. This differs from case to case. But the important thing is: School comes first. A school-leaving certificate should be made, at least the tenth grade certificate. You can still do your studies and training later. It is often the case that the parents give the girls one to two years to see if things are going well and if not, they advise them to do an apprenticeship. We are in close contact with the parents.
You write that the following applies to a model: the slimmer, the better. Why do most models still have to be 90:60:90 and dress size 34? Wouldn’t more female consumers feel addressed if they recognized themselves in the model in a certain way? Yes, that’s right. In Germany it is common for many models to wear size 38. I think that’s totally fine. A 40 is okay too. Then we come to the area of ??plus size models.
Keyword curvy models. To put it bluntly, you write: Being fat is not desirable, it is unhealthy. Overweight women should not be stylized as role models and there is no market for plus size models. I think the topic of body positivity sometimes overshoots the mark. This is exactly the other extreme of size zero. If someone looks anorexic, I can’t put them in my agency. If I have an 18-year-old sitting in front of me who wears size 42/44, then that’s not healthy either. We had a plus size department at the agency and we tried it out because the trend was so huge. But we’ve left it now. I also found it difficult to work with plus size models. My experience is that most people are dissatisfied because they actually want to lose weight and are constantly on a diet. This is a difficult subject. Especially when the girls are still very young and then carry too much weight around with them. That’s just not healthy.
Is Plus Size being rejected by designers or by consumers? I don’t think consumers want to see that. Otherwise many more designers would react to it. There are some designers who make fashion like this. But these are designers that none of us want. Fashion looks better on tall, slim people and I think we all strive to be as slim and fit as possible.
As an agent, do you tell your models that they are overweight and need to lose weight? Yes, definitely. If a model has previously worn a 36 and maybe gained some weight after Christmas, then we say: ‘Go to the gym and see that you get back in shape.’ That’s our job and that’s not reprehensible. It’s rare that you have critical cases and a girl slips into anorexia. Usually it is the case that there are deeper, personal problems. We are very sensitive to the issue of weight, but it is part of the game. This is no different in competitive sports, for example.
You discovered US model Kate Upton when she was 14. How did that come about? She was visiting Hamburg with her parents. A friend of mine knew her and sent her to my agency. I was immediately excited. She had a lot of potential. You can see that in the career she has had. Then we set them up. She is now in a partner agency in the USA.
The MeToo movement has also permeated the fashion industry for several years. In France, for example, Gérald Marie, long-time European head of the Elite model agency, is being investigated. What is your experience? I used to work a lot with Jean-Luc Brunel. For years he managed the model agency Karin Models and later founded his own agency MC2 Model Management. He was charged with raping a child in 2021 and took his own life in prison in February this year. Brunel had ties to Jeffrey Epstein. He was financially involved with the agency. I met both men and went to parties with them.
You’ve had parties with Jeffrey Epstein? Yes, several. Not just in New York, but also in Paris and Tel Aviv. There were always celebrities at the parties and a lot of young models, who were really burned. That was bad. I experienced the time at the end of the nineties very intensively, but I was relatively young at the time and couldn’t see exactly what was really going on with the girls. Looking back, that was the biggest scandal I came across. But the photographers and advertisers I knew at the time were also very aggressive. There was a macho culture. Dealing with the girls was very sexist. As an agent, I was more like the police and had to be careful. Some of what the models told me was very adventurous.
For example? There were many clearly ambiguous statements and comments. According to the motto: ‘Have sex with me, then you’ll make a career.’ Many men have boasted about their wealth, especially young models from the Eastern bloc or poorer countries were impressed by it. Drugs and alcohol were consumed without end. Thank goodness that all changed, especially since the advent of social media. I think that the risk of a model posting or filming something was then too great. Later there was a paradigm shift in the guys who work in the industry. There used to be the typical macho photographer who lived out his power. That has changed. Photographers are now more of a service provider. Customers are now also highly sensitized. There are so-called Codes of Conduct that define certain rules of conduct.
You are the father of four children. Do you have a daughter who wants to make a career as a model? She’s still too young for that. But if I felt she had the potential, then I would allow it. It’s a great job. You get to know a lot about the world, can gain interesting experiences and earn a lot of money. But the prerequisite must be that you really have the potential.