Ariana Baborie is known for her relaxed and fun personality. The presenter always has a cheeky saying on her lips, whether on stage, on television or on the radio. In her new podcast “Mom
First of all, congratulations on Ariana’s pregnancy. How do you both feel after coming such a long way?Bene Herzberg: I feel better and better about it now. Not that I doubt it, I just notice that as my pregnancy progresses I realize it more. Since we were in treatment, we knew it super early, around the second week. It was just uncertain for a very long time. That’s why we didn’t have that one moment where our entire life changed. We had a lot of time to mentally prepare for it. We are now in the 16th week.
Ariana Baborie: Like many other things in this fertility story, I imagined the moment differently. I had thought that as soon as I was pregnant the heavens would open up, a halo would come down and choirs of angels would sing. I actually thought I was floating on clouds for nine or ten months.
But?Baborie: Absurdly, I feel neutral, neither positive nor negative. It feels completely natural. It’s not as exciting as I thought. I don’t walk around with tears in my eyes, but of course I was really happy about it. We just took the news with caution and waited a long time. There were some hurdles to overcome, just like with natural pregnancies: Is there a gestational sac? Is a heart beating? Will it make it to the twelfth week? That’s why I curbed my euphoria. Now we can prepare for it and look forward to it.
Herzberg: Ariana’s neutrality of feeling is a positive thing. It could also have been that she went from the stress of treatment to the next fear.
Baborie: I feel like I have arrived and no longer have this urgent desire that I pursued for two and a half years. I can live my normal life – without the constant visits to the fertility clinic, the blood tests, the injections and the operations. Every woman deals with it differently, but I don’t feel traumatized by the treatment period. The phase in my life is over. Now comes the next one, and it’s beautiful.
Looking back, what was the hardest part of the journey to having your dream child? Baborie: For me it was hard to give up control. And then the time, you never knew: how long will it take? And will it be successful? Nobody could say that. The fact that you can’t do anything about it yourself is hard. My therapist and our fertility doctor always told us that it’s really difficult for people like me who have a control issue. You can create the best possible circumstances and do everything you can to ensure that the optimal conditions exist. But whether nature cooperates in the end is a matter of luck.
Herzberg: Since I’m fundamentally optimistic, I was sure that it would work at some point. The hardest part for me was realizing how Ariana felt about it and how difficult it was for her. I was involved, but only secondary. I was powerless in a way.
Nevertheless, you went through the whole thing for years. What gave you hope? Baborie: Bene gave me hope. He always said: It’ll work out, it’s just a matter of time. If this attempt doesn’t work, then the one after it will. There are also documentaries and reports that I watched: There were many in them who had a significantly worse diagnosis than us. I’m missing a fallopian tube, otherwise everything was fine. That’s why I thought to myself: Couples with so much worse starting conditions can do it, then we have to do it too.
In your podcast you take listeners through the entire process, which you have been accompanying with audio recordings since 2020. Why did you decide to talk so openly about your fertility journey? Baborie: The topic was taboo back then and still is today. I was shocked that we were suddenly in this situation and had to get help. None of my closest friends had to go to a fertility clinic. They all became pregnant after a maximum of three months, so they all conceived their children naturally. There was no one for me to talk to. We both like to listen to podcasts a lot and have been looking for podcasts and YouTube channels from people who are like us. We wanted to hear how these people explain their situation so that we feel less alone. But there was nothing. At some point we said: We’ll do exactly what’s missing – in the hope that the listeners will find support in it.
Herzberg: Ariana could have done the podcast with an expert or doctor. But we wanted to tell the whole thing as a couple, with all the ups and downs, to open up the topic, get out of the taboo zone and show that men also talk about it.
Fertility treatment is a challenge for everyone involved. What does all the ups and downs do to a partnership? Herzberg: We have learned to communicate a lot with each other. Ariana is so much closer: she goes through the whole treatment, but at the same time picks me up and keeps me informed so that I don’t get left behind. Through the podcast we would sit down and talk about it for an hour or more. So we processed it again. We knew from the start that we were in this boat together. It has strengthened us as a couple more than it has torn us apart.
Baborie: I also feel like it brought us together. But that doesn’t mean we haven’t had difficult times too. Bene’s optimism was something that put a strain on our partnership. After setbacks or negative results, I usually felt like I wanted to let out my frustration, be angry and cry it all out. Sometimes Bene’s optimism was too much for me when he said: That was stupid, but next time!
How did you resolve these different ways of dealing with setbacks? Baborie: I then told him that I think the optimism is great, that it keeps us moving forward, but after a negative result I need space for myself for a moment to let out my anger, sadness and despair. It also helped that I had my therapist. With her I noticed how stressful the topic can be. I didn’t feel the need to talk about it at all, but she simply asked and in the course of the conversation a lot of fears, worries and despair came to the fore. That was super important for me. I would advise everyone to seek help to talk about this situation.
What else can help unintentionally childless couples? Baborie: I would like more knowledge! We have been told for decades how to protect ourselves from unwanted pregnancy. No one ever said it would be difficult to get pregnant at all. Even under optimal conditions with a normal cycle, the chances of pregnancy are only 30 percent. I also didn’t know before that one in ten women has a death in their life. We should work in schools and as part of education to ensure that this is a topic.
What should definitely change structurally for those affected? Herzberg: There are a few things – like financial support. Only heterosexual couples who are married receive support from health insurance, and only to a limited extent. For everyone else it is categorically excluded. For many couples, this means that they have to get married in order to afford the treatment, even though they had no intention of doing so. Others have to stop treatment for financial reasons or are unable to start it at all.
Baborie: There should be more opportunities to seek advice to see what decision you should make. There are a wide range of tests, examinations or operations that can be done. Am I spending that much money on this? Do I lie down on the operating table again? We also didn’t really know: Where do we get information? Who can help with questions? Of course our doctor tried to give us advice. But when you’re undergoing fertility treatment, you want to go to other clinics and doctors to get a second or third opinion. But it’s not easy, unlike a herniated disc.
How could this problem be solved? Baborie: I don’t have an ideal recipe for what kind of position or institution should be set up for this. But I can also see from the feedback from our listeners that there is a deficiency. They write us heartbreaking messages: “Finally someone is talking about it”, “Finally I can hear how others are dealing with the topic”, “Finally I’m not alone with my fears”.
How do you both imagine life with a child? Baborie: Thanks to my friends who are already parents, I am relatively well and realistically prepared for what happens: lack of sleep, teething, screaming, not seeing friends, not being able to do anything anymore. When they talk about their everyday life, you take it with you. Sometimes I’m almost a little scared and think: This is going to be hard and we have to roll up our sleeves. Maybe it’s a good thing that we don’t approach it so romantically. I think it will still be very beautiful and surreal. We’ve been waiting for this for so long. I’m really happy and often can’t believe that what I’ve been waiting for two and a half years is actually here. I could imagine that life with a child is the same.
Herzberg: I think it will be fun. (both laugh) Of course you’re dead tired and that’s bad, but thanks to your hormones you can handle it all for your child.
Baborie: I really hope so, because all my friends tell me with this glassy look: You look at your child and the hormones make you love him more than anything, so that everything can be overcome. I need these hormones to get me through this hellish trip. (laughs)
Herzberg: I firmly believe in it. I noticed this through our dog: in the early stages everything was extremely stressful with him, you constantly had to go out at night. I almost enjoyed doing it because I did it for the little dog. That has to be even stronger for your own child. I’m ready.
What are you most looking forward to? Baborie: This moment when the child is here. I also know this from my friends: They told me that they didn’t realize or process the fact that a child was growing in their stomach until the child was there. Even then you hold it in your arms and think: That was in my stomach?! This also helps me not to feel completely wrong.
And when the child is there? Baborie: I’m looking forward to the first times: having the child in my arms for the first time. To get to know this little person. Here’s to coming home and the first night at home. This long phase of wishing, planning and fighting for it is then over.
